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Wife Swap fundie murders
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My sons and I watched wife swap wwwaaayyy back in the day and I just noticed it’s on Hulu now. While the 3 of us were talking, I saw that one of the children on it had killed his mom and one of his brothers, then tried to kill himself but he survived. We watched the episode (s4e15), and this family was deep into it. They had all sons, some of them adult, who were not allowed to date, watch tv, play video games, were sequestered on their farm, and played in a family bluegrass band. They had to earn tokens to get privileges, like listening to the radio (certain things only), by doing chores. You can tell on the show by their reactions to the new rules, that they are brainwashed in a very unhealthy way, but then actually enjoy some of the things the swapped mom encouraged them to do. The whole thing was very sad and tragic to watch knowing the outcome. The family’s last name was Stockdale.
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Oh my god, just looked into this family. They had to earn “tokens” to get basic “privileges” like a stick of gum or listening to Christian radio. They could be taken away arbitrarily at any moment and the kids were forbidden any contact with the outside world. The mom was so proud of that system. A brutal reminder of what severe emotional abuse does to families.
I think Free Jinger had thread about them. They sounded worse than the Maxwells.
……..my parents had this system. Now what
now you murder them i guess
Oof. I just looked up a few different articles and its so unsettling to hear quotes from people talking about how great the mom/family was. Who thinks the control the parents held over their kids is normal? People really need to learn what abuse looks like because it was basically blasted all over TV for everyone to see and nothing ever happened.
I was reading an article like that too! The article even said "everything was going well until Jacob murdered his mom and brother." Like, clearly everything was not going well.
I mean, at this point it's some kind of minor miracle that more fundie kids haven't snapped and straight up pulled a Carrie by burning the house down with everyone inside.
fundie kids?
Whoopsie.
Isn't that the opening for every murder show ever? "Everything was fine... Until it wasn't..."
My mom ALWAYS sees red flags with those types of controlling families, then ends up being right about them being fucked up. For example, Jimboob and Meech.
Same! I remember watching the Duggar’s way back in the beginning and my money as like “nope, somethings not right.” She was also raised in a cult and was deconstructing from a second stint in Christianity so… she knew what was up
As soon as I heard of the Duggats I knew something was off. I watched wondering what was wrong with me, they were wholesome, right? Nope.
I'm embarrassed that I used to defend them a lot. I thought they were similar to Pentecostals. I think the Ann/Pest wedding set off the alarm bells for me then the old Discovery Forum.
It’s super sad, but I’m seeing red flags with the mother of one of my therapy clients. This post just sort of deals the deal for me sadly. Extensive parental trauma history and both parents are veterans. Mom is very strict with house rules. They attend a conservative church, anti vax, and pro-Trump. Oldest son has done “inappropriate” things to his siblings. It’s being handled by the state thankfully. But I’m just worried it’s going to keep getting worse and worse for my client in his house. Sorry to vent.
I feel so bad for your client! I had a nightmare parent, but my mom left him when I was 10.
i know this website is anon, but i just have to say it makes me weary that a therapist is posting such intimate details they shared with you online. makes therapists seem not trustworthy for one if they’re using your trauma for debate on reddit and idk. just gave me a bad feeling reading, if that’s worth some professional insight as someone who truly trusts their therapist.
Whole heartedly agree with you there.
There is literally not one identifying detail in what was posted. I am weary of people looking for issues to complain about.
My grandmother, who died in 2011, always used to say that Pest “looked like a creep.” Grammy was right
I couldn’t figure out why I was the only one that wasn’t allowed to go over to one of the neighborhood kid’s house growing up. I thought my mom was being controlling.
Turns out she’s just amazing at spotting red flags, probably has something to do with the fact that she’s one of those pesky social workers.
Good lookin’ out, Mommy. :)
My mom’s a social worker too and had the exact same rules! I also wasn’t allowed to sleep over unless my mom knew the parents well and the father wouldn’t be staying in the house. Even then, my mom gave me a phone to call her if something seemed sus. I only ever slept over at 2 of my friends’ houses.
The dad couldn’t even be home? That’s a bit much.
At LeAsT sHe wAsNt rAiSiNg SpOiLeD BrAtS.
No just a murderer.
Growing up, anytime we would complain to my parents about their excessive control, they would reference to the bishop's family (we were Mormon), who were more controlling than ours.
We couldn't have our phones at night, had to share our passwords, and had our internet history tracked by K9 and DisneyCircle, but their kids couldn't even have their phones with them in their rooms or in the bathroom.
They would always imply that because they were so "functional" and "peaceful," anything they did must be right. It was gross because their kids were super sheltered and brainwashed, but they were obedient and that's all my parents could focus on and they expected us to do the same.
That's how people are. They only care if children are obedient, respectful, righteous, etc. The people who were surprised by this were probably focused on those things.
i'm late to the party. but i totally agree. most people know that physical abuse is bad, but they don't realize what verbal and emotional abuse looks like because it doesn't leave physical marks... unless it's with a gun.
The mom says, “I like things done my way, the right way.” Very telling.
She shouldn't have signed up for the show then.
That’s so sad. Raising children like that is incredibly self serving. These parents robbed their children of their personhood just to be like “look at how well behaved my children are,” as if they were animals.
As a mother, it's also making way more work for yourself. Allowing your kid individual expression and autonomy (so long as it's safe) is not only a healthy way to raise an independent adult, but it's also just plain easier 😆
More interesting too! I already have myself, I don't need some weird robot-clone version of myself also.
Parents like this will use that 'extra work' to convince other people that no, they're not abusive control freaks- actually they're selfless martyrs!
Not uncommon for a wife swap episode. There’s always one family that has their kids entirely under their thumb (I saw an episode where the parents forced their kids to spoon cereal and then drain it on the side of the bowl for ?? reasons ?? literally every time they ate cereal) and a totally opposite family that let their kids basically run rampant.
I watched this show a lot when it aired and the reruns a lot, like a lot lol. That was the "New" mom with the kids, and the reason she did that was because her own son was in wrestling and to stay in his weight class they did that. They also kept a lock on the fridge to keep him from overeating.
Oh yes now I remember. Didn’t they also make him wear a tiara and call him a sissy when he didn’t win?
I remember later episodes where one guy said he had kids to do the chores so he wouldn’t have to. Made them work, gave them allowance, then “taxed” it & then wouldn’t let them spend the money on things they wanted
People used to praise the Duggars for the same reason. I know you have to take thngs with a grain fo salt, but a lot of comments say otherwise.
I get why he killed the mother, but why his brother? Why not the father?
I’m assuming since he also tried to kill himself he thought it was truly in his brothers best interest?
In annihilation situations triggered in a short space of time rather than over several months or years, the annihilator will often kill whoever is around rather than the targets of their emotional aggression. They take on spree shooter characteristics like moving to another location or attempting suicide when identified.
He might have felt by killing his brother that he’d be sparing him any more abuse - if dad and the older brothers would’ve kept him living that life.
The other brothers live in different towns, so it seemed they managed to get away... Maybe the parents were pressuring them to remain there to care for them and the farm
I feel like it would be unlikely for him to have that motive for one of his victims and such a different motive with his other victim. If someone kills multiple people in the same emotion-driven event like that, it seems like it would be more like "fuck all of you" or "I have to save all of you" or whatever. Not a mixture.
But that's just a feeling, not really based on anything else.
Maybe the brother was also in on the abuse? Like, in a lot of abusive households, the parents will pick on one kid in particular over the other(s) and then the other kids will gang up on them as well to keep themselves from becoming targets. I find I hard to blame young children who do this because they’re also victims and don’t know better, but the ones being more severely abused might only see them as being complicit in their harm.
I interned at a public interest law firm about 1,000 years ago. You used the word 'target' and that's what they called it, too: a target child.
You're one of the few people, I've ever seen actually acknowledge this. Thank you.
You a law & order svu fan? It reminds me of an episode where the mom was similar & the boy killed his little brother & tried to kill himself but the gun jammed because they’d be better off. It really reminds me of this
The father wasn't there.
Yeah but he could have waited and killed him
Who knows honestly. There are a lot of true crime docs where the killer has a weird motive or none at all. I think it can be difficult to wrap your mind around the decision making of someone who has decided to kill another person.
Family annihilators are a strange one to figure out. Could be simply that dad wasn’t home at the time of the outburst that led to it?
My partners childhood friend murdered his family after he failed out of college. Instead of telling his parents that he wouldn’t be returning back in the fall when it came time to register for classes, he just grabbed his dads gun. He killed his brother first, likely because he didn’t want him to hear his parents die? His mom ending up surviving.
I feel like I’ve heard of this… is this a pretty popular case?
Maybe his brother wasn't supposed to be there/tried to defend the mother who was the main target/became an unintended witness to the crime.
Probably because they weren’t home at the time
They were probably all getting abused by the father. He apparently has shown up to every court hearing for his son…supportive or controlling? The some probably thought their only way out was death since the other brothers moved out maybe the abuse got worse for the three of them
well i'm finishing watching plathville right now and i will immediately start this wife swap eipsode!!! thanks!
I wouldn't be surprised If one of the Plath kids did the same. They are horrible
Omg right? Those parents are the absolute worst. The mind games and manipulation is unreal!!
You too? I'm very worried for the Plathville children. I really do think the mother in particular, needs her head examined. She is more than controlling, she's vindictive. Dad just lets it happen. The religious extremism is so mentally and emotionally damaging!
I hate to say “no wonder he killed his parents” but damn
Only one parent. And his younger brother.
This might sound fucked up but I don’t know that I can blame him for killing his mom (his brother, maybe, but I can only speculate about that). I wish he’d had other means of getting out and getting help, but still, I get it.
As someone with a...not this severe, but still abusive parent, I know what it’s like to simultaneously feel so angry and yet so trapped, such that it doesn’t feel like you have any other way of getting out of your situation. But I’m very fortunate that I have a way out and I’m working on it.
I’m not saying what he did was right, obviously, I’m just saying I can’t blame him because I know how it feels.
Sending you alll the strength!!!
Not to mention even though he was 25, he prob went out into the world and realized he couldn’t function in it bc the mother believed “she was all they needed.” All the time should be spent with the family. He was the same one in wife swap that ran out crying when the new mom gave them freedom. When asked why he was crying, he told her that his parents told him that if he does the new rules- they’d still burn in hell. The psych that said he was normal & was fit to stand trial should NOT BE a psych. He was clearly abused & they were in prison. It reminds me of Zac Efrons SNL skit with High School Musical… he comes back to address the upcoming grads and says that they didn’t prep him for the real world. That ppl don’t sing for no reason. It’s the same for these boys. They have no idea how to be in the world bc of their parents.
Crazy stuff. You can read the family’s ridiculous manual for the show here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20170616183644/http://stockdalefamilyband.com/stockdale-family-manual/
So it seems beside cooking and buying groceries once a month the boys did all the chores. And they had 4 minutes from when they woke up to breakfast, if not they were charged money. Christ
Edit: the kid who murdered his mum and brother has tried to escape TWICE from the psych hospital he is in
Edit 2: OH MY GOD THE OTHER MUM SAID THAT WHEN SHE TRIED TO GIVE HIM MORE FREEDOM DURING THE SHOW HE HAD A PANIC ATTACK, RUN OUTSIDE AND STARTED CRYING BC HE WAS SCARED HE WAS GOING TO HELL
Yes. The whole thing was just tragic, and the sad thing is, when the new mom was saying her rules, one of the boys was talking to her outside, because she left and he wanted to make her feel better, with tears welling up in his eyes, saying it just goes against all their principles, and I assumed it was the boy that murdered them, BUT IT WASN’T! All of those poor boys were so messed up. ETA: sorry that sentence is a hell of a run on but jeez, my emotions
This is why I can't watch this show or shows like it. They are rarely showing off families who are doing okay. They always have to get some truly unhinged people on the show for entertainment. This isn't entertaining.
Jeez, I am not really surprised that something bad would happen given how much abuse the religion and parents shoved down.
Right?! What's surprising is that more fundie kids haven't snapped.
Omg that poor child. How did this not alert producers to notify CPS?!?!
Psh, and lose those delicious Fundie Freak Show ratings?!
Was this not a Trashy Life Choices show?
What the fuck?
Oh, that shit is nasty. Totally ruins your appetite as well. Was anyone else force fed this stuff as well?
I mean, it was very common to give kids this - and even adults - daily in the Scandavian countries to counteract the vitD deficiancies - its much higher and effective then most vit d supplements. I can easily see this being something one of their families did, and they kept it up.
Oh yeah, same here! I’ve got capsules now. Thank goodness those have no flavour 😂
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Right? I understand valuing work, but not intentionally making your kids’ lives harder than they need to be just for bragging rights. You’re supposed to want happiness for your kids.
My parents when they were little, it was a popular medicine to give to kids to have them grow strong. My mum detested it and kicked and screamed everytime. Now if you want to there are soft capsules to ingest, so I don't know why this lady wanted to give the kids the liquid version beside sadism
Probably cheaper and more traditional.
"I want my kids to grow up in a carefree and wholesome environment."
Charges children for being late to breakfast. Children have to earn any ounce of fun and recreation they have.
We have very different definitions of carefree. It's so sad none of these people seem to be able to find joy in their children.
And children have to work outside the home or sell chickens to make the money she charges them. They also had to pay for their own music lessons so they could participate in the family band. Fuck that bitch.
I feel bad for Charles, who always overslept. Growing teenagers need sleep too!
Holy shit, there's a lot of controlling (possibly narcissistic) stuff in there. It's so sad. She literally had them controlled down to the minute, no room for any individual interests, no friends, no outside contact that wasn't tightly supervised. I understand there's no known evidence of physical abuse right now, and I'm not saying it happened, but I'm 99.9% certain that there was emotional, mental, and likely spiritual abuse. Those poor, poor kids. Obviously that doesn't excuse Jacob for murder, and most abused people do not grow up to do anything like that. But what a tragedy! I can't help but feel he probably had a psychological break of some kind. Especially since he went after his younger brother too, not just his mom.
I know all of this is fucked up but the whole thing about the youngest being lactose intolerant annoys the shit out of me. I am lactose intolerant. The mom really thinks that giving the kid 6 lactaids in the morning will make up for an ENTIRE day of milk and butter filled meals??? She’s making him sick. No wonder he threw up “the only time he ever ate fast food.”
I find it interesting that religion/God is hardly mentioned at all. I know they were religious and that extremist religion can play a major part in abuse, but in this case I don't know that it did.
An extremely controlling person drifting into extreme religious practices to put a palatable face on their abusive tendencies would be nothing new.
True, a lot of times it's kind of a chicken-or-egg thing. But these ones didn't seem to even put that much of a religious veneer on it, compared to most of the people we talk about.
Or maybe the show edited some of it out of the manual for whatever reason, or told them to write it a certain way.
Moved them to the country to keep them away from violence, sexual influences, drugs, and rap music. I can't even with these ridiculous white fundies sometimes.
Ironic that they think the evil is outside of the family home and not inside it. Basically do as I say not as I do.
I just clicked and read the manual. Lord, help us all..
Oof I just fell down that rabbit hole.
Those boys were clearly the victim of abuse. I'm shocked that didn't seem to come up at all in the ensuing court drama. He was sentenced to thirty years in prison in April.
I can't help but feel bad for him, despite the horrible things he did. It's justice, but it's also a huge tragedy.
I was thinking the same thing. He did a terrible thing, but.
It had strong Gypsy Rose Blanchard energy really.
Can you imagine this kids life in prison after being sheltered his whole life? I cannot understand why some people bring children into this world and treat them this way. 30 years oof
Jesus yeah they're gonna eat him alive
I thought these shows were fake...how horrible
The families are entirely real, but the producers ramp up the cheese for drama. I was internet friends with a mom whose family was featured on the show. They were paid to do it, and the producers made a lot of their behaviors seem weirder or more extreme to make them more interesting, but the rest was quite real. She said it was a unique experience but not one that she'd probably do again just because it invited so much judgment of her and her husband and son.
Going on wife swap or trading spouses is totally opening yourself up to become a viral video lol. I will never forget IM A GOD WARRIOR lady.
And now Marguerite Perrin (God Warrior) has become friend to the LGBT community. I recently found this out. After her daughter died in a car accident several years ago, she was spiraling and was kind of embraced by the community. I thought that was pretty neat.
Dark sided!!!! She's not a Christian!
SHE IS NOT A CHRIS-CHUUUUUUN
This in a nutshell. One of the episodes that was filmed in Waterloo Iowa was filmed only two houses down from mine. The son is the same age as me and we were both 14 at the time of filming. On the show it showcased them as freaks but in reality they’re totally normal people and don’t walk around in costumes like they did in the show.
Wow looking up articles about this family was even more infuriating… every single one praises the mother and talks about how she instilled such great values in her children. So her son just happened to end up killing her for no reason? Got it
At the beginning of the episode they are explaining how they move their family out of the city into the country to isolate and protect the boys. This is the now super eerie line the dad said 😬😬😬 Dad: "the day we moved we heard gunshots in our neighborhood and I knew we made the right decision." 😬😬😬 If only he knew the gunshots that the police would hear coming from inside the house years later would be his own son shooting himself in the head after shooting dead his wife and youngest son.
Could be something happened we will never know about too. Could be he snapped. Could be mom was doing what we already saw she does and brother ganged up. Suicide attempt was probably after the fact. No one will really ever know but the survivor who may never tell it all
Since he has a TBI, even he may not remember all the details.
Even better reason. I bet there are years of behind doors that poor boy endured
💯
We will probably never know for sure, but my personal belief/interpretation is that the poor guy was severely mentally abused. As someone who's experienced just a small taste of this, I can't help but feel extremely sympathetic to him despite his crime.
I agree. That’s why I think there is more to it. Like dad was likely also abusive but he let dad live. Seems like it was spontaneous
Dad wasn't home. Seems that dad worked outside the home and left mommy dearest alone to "raise" the kids. She also proudly stated she was the disciplinarian, while dad just backed her decisions. Kinda sounds like classic narc/enabler dynamic from their manual.
I think about this case a lot. I heard about the murders first (as some people reading this thread undoubtedly have) and then went back through the TV episode, videos if the family band, etc. What a heartbreaking story.
I remember looking at their website and it was really heartbreaking. You could tell how little freedom the kids had and how much was expected of them as well. They really had no room to be their own person at all.
The manual even said “children are not their own individual people” then what are they?!
Jesus fuck and I thought my fundie parents were controlling..
I remember this! I remember watching that family on wife swap and thinking those parents were so odd and how I felt bad for those kids
The comment about gutting a chicken got me!🐔🐔
Dear God, fell down the rabbit hole.
Ya'll need to watch "God Warrior."
Forgive me because I’m not American. But… how can he have killed them in 2017, be in jail but not be convicted yet?
From what I read, they couldn’t charge and arrest him until 2018 because of his own injuries, then he was put in a mental institution because he was found incompetent to stand trial. I’m not sure if he’s still there or not. And I’m sure covid has slowed things down as well.
And the whole point of living the way they did was to “protect them from bad influences”. How wrong they were. Heartbreaking!
Stockdale really couldn’t get much closer to Stockholm.
Holy cow! I remember that episode from way back when it was on tv (also definitely going to Hulu to watch some wife swap this afternoon lol). I remember thinking the kids’ whole lives were so sad. That was before I knew much about fundies. Damn…well off to head down that rabbit hole.
I went down this rabbit hole at least year ago. I can’t remember where I found the information but there was some speculation the son may have been schizophrenic or had another mental illness and was unmedicated. Of course, the upbringing didn’t help, but he just went off the deep end.
This actually happened somewhat close to where I’m from, so I remember reading about this quite a bit. These people are worse than our Amish neighbors when it came to some things. If you go back and read the trial got postponed cause of rona and they say video was very difficult to manage almost like he was scared of technology. Super sad.
It is so sad that this boy snapped but something other comes to mind that gets me worried, so for the boys that did finally move out my question is did they still have to conform to what the parents commanded them or do you think that they just had enough and are finally experiencing freedom despite what just happened to their mother? I mean granted I mean the way that those two parents were going they liked to control the minute of every second of their lives including how to smile what do you think and how to basically live almost like a robot, but makes me wonder when somebody escapes out of that,if the parents were still Dictating to the boys that left how to live their lives even though that it would be the first taste of freedom. I’m not trying to say she got what she deserved but sometimes when you hear about these parents that basically rob their children up and identity and have it be almost Stepford wife type of living, you wonder how can those parents actually say that they love their kids when sometimes it’s just control that they like more than love
Not surprised this happened a single bit, I rewatched the episode and the mother of the Stockdale family didn’t learn a single thing from the family she was with.
she made them do chores for a small piece of gum.
My question is, why did she agree to appear on TV when she is against watching TV? The mind boggles.
This a late posting, but moms and murder podcast just did an episode on this! Every time I hear about these types of family Dynamic it smells like a recipe for disaster! You can’t find our children from he world! That’s leaving completely vulnerable and this world can be extremely harsh.